Maury Thompson | Interview | American Masters
Maury Thompson: I met Lucille Ball onstage a same day that she met Vivian Vance. And it was a cold morning. She was late to arrive. And when she came in, she has had a long, long cold clear down to her ankles, her hair and a babushka skirt, huge amber glasses and little flat shoes. And Jeff Hoffenheim, the producer, said for her to stand for me is sit right beside her. And so when she came in, she wears these stretch slacks that the strap goes under your ankle under instep. So the first thing she does is hoist those slacks up to here. And so let’s get to work. And Desi said, oh, honey, I don’t think you’ve met Miss Vance. Oh, no. No, I haven’t. How do you do? What part are you reading for? And that’s, he says for his own words. Honey, what’s the matter with you? Well, I didn’t know at the murders. Well, you don’t look like a landlady. Well, your hair is the same color as mine and ball. I can diet black. It doesn’t matter to me at all. I know, but you’re a good looking woman. Dessy says. Lucille, what camera? What do you have in mind that a band maybe looks like? Just tell me so I frank side hair in curlers in a bathrobe and fuzzy slippers. That’s what I have in mind. And this is you should see me this morning. And Lucille said as Lucy, that little chuckle out of that delighted her. So anyway. Well, let’s try. Honey, let’s just read through for the first time. We haven’t read through it yet and see how things go and then we’ll fine tune it. OK. She kept standing up, though. She didn’t sit down and I looked down at her feet and her toes were just wiggling in those hills sandals. I thought, oh, this is going to be a day. So she read about two. We read about two sides and she’s. Now, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. There’s a line here that bothers me. It’s bothered me for two weeks. I said, I don’t know what’s wrong with it, but it’s not right for me. Now, let’s fix it right now. So the writers mumble a little bit and they came up with something just perfect. That’s exactly what I had in mind and said, well, can now write it down. Let’s go. Let’s go on. We went to, what, three more pages and. Now here’s another one. This is like that. It reverts back to that one line. I know. Did anyone get that first line? We just changed. No one said anything. I’m not supposed to say anything. So I said I have it. So what’s your name again? I said, Maureen Thompson. What do you do? I’m a script supervisor. What do they do? Well, they make corrections in your script. So when you take your script home tonight, you have to be correct. And so tautologies. What’s the line again? So I read it to us as well, how did you write it down so fast? I said I’d take short answers short. We’ve never had anyone have short and others said we’re in top drawer. Okay, let’s go on. So we then went on. And when they came here, Willie Mae, her maid, carried a basket with cloth over the top of it and set it right at my feet. And I didn’t know what it was, but I made room for it naturally. So about quarter of twelve she does the basket, takes out a drumstick for D.C. and the drumstick for herself, covers it up and starts tearing into that chicken leg. And the chicken mange, that small part of the bone is in her hand, but the meat is up here and she rips it off like that and rip it off. Okay, let’s go on. And nothing was said about anybody else having lunch. So finally, Bill Frawley says when the peons eat around here. What’s the matter with you? What do you mean by that? Through hell, I didn’t have my lunch at 10 o’clock in the morning. No one said having had. He says, you know, I get cranky when I get hungry, says, OK, Murray, take Bill Frawley and Miss Vance over to the commissary and you all enjoy lunch. Have lunch. Come back soon as you can. So we did. Oh, everyone went to lunch then. And when we came back, it was as if nothing ever happened. We started right on four with no apology. There was enough chicken in that basket to feed the whole crew. No way. So that was our first meeting and our first day on the stage together as a group.
Interviewer: And what do you think she was over? Tell me what your sense about the Vivian Vance meeting. What do you think Lucille was doing with those remarks? What was she trying to do to Vivian Vance?
Maury Thompson: Lucille had made up her mind. She had another person in mind and she wanted to use this other lady. And Dessy knew perfectly well it was a mistake. She was not dependable, and so she had that in her mind and she was set for her. She wanted that woman to do the part. So she was condescending, too. And poor Viv just was dying there because she could feel that the dissension. And then as that veiled talk, just straight, just like Lucille, Lucille talks full voice from nine o’clock in the morning until we showed the show on Thursday night. Full voice. And she expects it from everyone else. And boy, oh, we have met her every time she turned around. She barked at her just like she barks at Viv. You know, Vivian was marvelous, marvelous woman. I my best friend was dead. And that old Lucille knew after a couple of shows that she had a good, strong person and a clown has to have a strong person to play with. They offer, you know, but she would not admit it. Now, she won’t admit it. But she was glad that she had that woman. And then she didn’t want to wear any makeup or anything like that and wear a dowdy old checkered house dress, you know, and didn’t care as long as she was working. And after we done about six shows. I have to drive up to sunset. She was at the Sharam Hotel up there. Does she have any cars? We didn’t know the show was gonna go longer than 13 weeks. That was all they signed up for. So this one with Lucille had just picked her to death this particular day. You know, just nag, nag, nag. And Viv didn’t respond just to do her part and let it go. Let it go. So as we were going up the hill up to sunset, I said, honey, what are you going to do? And this is about what it says about her. And she’s just picking you to death. She said, honey, if this show should go. It’ll be the biggest thing that ever happened in my career, so I’ve made up my mind. I’m going to learn to love that. Well, that’s all what she had to say, because I knew exactly and that’s what she did. She learned to love Lucille. She did nice things for Lucille. She brought back a huge bouquet of lilacs from the East Coast when she went back just for a hiatus and she when she brought it back. The train was about, oh, 10 minutes late and Lucille was storming. She had something on her. Now, you know, boy, I’ll dig into her. So here come Vivian. And with this huge armload of lilacs, which she knew were very Lucille’s favorite flower, and we all own an art about them because it were just beautiful. And this gives us something. Here you are, honey. Flowers on the East Coast and loses it. Just put them there on the border. We were there. We were late. Come on. Just leave it there. And she never went near those lilacs. I went and got the lilacs and put in a deep bucket of water, and I never heard her say thank you for the lilacs. It was overpowering to Lucille. Lucille can’t think that way. Rarely does one seal say thank you. Rarely. And this was a beautiful chance to say thank you. My heavens. It’s wonderful the way.
Interviewer: And yet you were very loyal to her for a very long time. So there must’ve been something that inspired that loyalty in you and in others.
Maury Thompson: With me, I loved her. I loved Lucille. I took her for what she was. I wanted to just pop her one. You know what at times. You. When you think of the talent that’s there and the talent that comes across when we start to roll the cameras. Her lines are all the same and everything. But, boy, she puts a strength in there that no one can touch. No one will ever touch this woman. Never touch the hem of her garments. What I say, she is the queen. And so I respected that. And I never caused any trouble. I never I could tell when she walk on the stage in the morning what kind of a day it’s going to be. Because her head. Holding her head down. Never look up, you know. OK. Let’s get going. What? What’s first? You know, the site was a grind, but bite after lunch and they have to shoot, start pepping up and here we go again. And we’re we’re back with the gal, you know. She strange lady, strange, but you accept, you just accept it. Who else would do it? They couldn’t. No one even mimic. There’s a girl now currently that mimics her that does a very good job. She’s got all the characteristics that Lucille has. Very, very good. You think of her name right now.
Interviewer: But you mentioned a moment ago that you can just see her face every day. Tell me about that.
Maury Thompson: It was embedded in me. Embedded, her voice was. It had a tone that commanded your attention, but right now. I would mention something and she’d say, why? Well, why, I asked why. And I only had to have it once because I you if you’re going to say something here, you better back it up. Oh, you’re in trouble and you never lie to either one because they’ll say, hey, three months ago you said so. We thought I was forgotten. No way. But she she learned to respect my taste, too. She should know when I was doing the camera coordinating on the show. She’d come in and in just rehearsal the day before in the outfit that she was the clown or whatever it was that she was going to be. And this time it was they’re going to decorate their apartment. And when she came in, she in rehearsal, she has had her exercise clothes on. And she came in within. I said, is that what you’re going to wear? What’s wrong with it? And I said, well, nothing’s wrong with it, but I just thought we could do better. So I said, Okay, you’re ready. And so then when I came when she came in the next day, she was all gussied up because I had said to the designer, has it, can’t we get her short leather skirt honor and a Harlequin blouse sin and harlequin glasses was rhinestones really make her horny? Goshawk. Oh. Wild shoes and boots. And when she came in in the show, it kind of big hand, but she didn’t come to me and say, Oh, you were right. Gracias. Mm hmm. It’s all her idea.
Interviewer: How about Desi? What kind of a person was he on the set? What kind of an actor? And then later a producer. And how did he work with the crew in contrast to how she worked with you all?
Maury Thompson: Yes, he was a gentleman. He was a really a gentleman, the sweetheart of a guy got along with the crew. He looked checked all of his shots to be sure he had both eyes with her. Always get both both eyes. Well, it’s kind of stereotype when it’s a spoof. But that’s what he wanted because he knew those eyes where the money got both eyes. Yeah, but if anyone, Trixie or anything. Oh, then he’s mean. He read. He turned them on Turner. He heads one of the operators had some. Pictures. And he showed to me when I said, do don’t you see those pictures you better just get rid of? You know, they were bad. But he’d been drinking when he came back to work. From the day before, man. And don’t you dare show to anybody. Well, here, Lucy on the set for the first time. Hey, Luce, come here. I show you some. And I said, Lucille, I never I rarely call it Lucy, Lucille. Please don’t go over there. And his crew are ready to go, you know, not with an audience in there. It’s just rehearsal. But that intrigued her. She wanted to see what those pictures were. She knew darn well what they were. And so she just dropped around a. You don’t. Does he see you at those pictures or you’re in trouble? She and you can’t say enough nice about Dessy. I thought he was too broad of an actor. But he was so trying so hard to keep up his end of the deal, you know?
Interviewer: Mary, I have to ask you, what was in those pictures?
Maury Thompson: They were nudes, that type of thing, you know.
Interviewer: But not compromising of desi.
Maury Thompson: No, no, no. No. Oh, no. No. Nothing like oh, I don’t know what I did. I never. I grabbed him and ran. That’s what I’ve done.
Interviewer: Let’s stop for one second, Bob. Yeah. He looks like you got. Can you tell us a little bit about how they interacted with each other on the set and let’s perhaps put it in time. In the beginning and then later on, when I guess things weren’t going so well in the marriage
Maury Thompson: In the beginning, there was just perfect. It was a joy, a joy, joy, joy, because she was excited about the holiday and where she loves him, loves she loved him to the day she died. He died. She was on the phone with him everyday, even when he was in the hospital. Everything. So she loved him. She was a really a true love affair. But she just couldn’t hold back. Embarrassing him in front of people and. I don’t know. What you can say that she would do, there was no. The end result was always bad, but what brought it on? You never knew. He stooped over once and she kicked him and she meant to kicking higher, but she didn’t and she kicked him lower. And the poor man just folded. You have a Cuban girl, pale. That was unusual. Oh, it was a tear. And he limped around for days. Just days. It was off. She has. She likes to. Somehow hurt people. You know, she just has it in. And yet we accepted whatever. I don’t know how to say much more about it.
Interviewer: Why do you think the marriage didn’t last?
Maury Thompson: I say she’d be a hard, hard lady to work with all day long and be at home all night long with the same person. Hard lady and he’s easy, you know, but the drinking entered in the drinking and. It got bad at 10 o’clock in the morning. He would ask for some tomato soup. And it was loaded with vodka. You know, it’s loaded and it’s a couple of sips of it and he’s gone. He’s gone. Staggering sleep. Just the worst, the worst. And we had to put up with it. We had to put up with it. But that didn’t appear much in the films. Then I got that patch. You just couldn’t work with it.
Interviewer: I remember being on the set for the very last filming. Lucy meets the mustache with Ernie Kovacs and Eddie Adams. This is in the Connecticut home now.
Maury Thompson: Yeah.
Interviewer: And she sings that lovely song. It’s, uh. That’s all. That’s all, I think. Is this the refrain in this song? Do you remember that last filming and the very end of the episode they have to kiss.
Maury Thompson: Yeah.
Interviewer: And it kind of looks like Lucy’s pulling away.
Maury Thompson: Oh, yeah.
Interviewer: Tell us about that.
Maury Thompson: Well, first. Is that an hour show? Yeah, see, I didn’t work the hours shows. Oh, scuse me. I can start over again. When we do, the hours shows that it isn’t a three camera, it is a three camera deal. But there aren’t and there’s no audience because it was too much to cover. And. They weren’t speaking, just weren’t speaking to each other. And if if she doesn’t want to be kissed. Don’t try to kiss her. You know, she’s. She’ll do it, but it’ll be the cheek or the turn of the head or something, you know? So a lot of that love, that poor guy didn’t know a hoarder go with it. You know, you could just tell he was miserable, just miserable. And then you knew things were happening at home that weren’t happy. So it was a dreadful, dreadful ending.
Interviewer: And how did you feel when you heard that she had gone to file for divorce?
Maury Thompson: Well, by that time, the mermaid. I don’t know when the rumors started because it was we knew for a long time it wasn’t gonna work. And. Is our family in our family? We were a family. We went on picnics together and wonderful things, you know. And we just couldn’t believe that they were so strong together as lovers and that they would allow it to happen to all of us. You know, we had lots of tears. Lots of tears.
Interviewer: And did you have a sense at the time that it really was the end of an era? Not just your microcosm, but in the larger scheme of television? There really never was a show like that. Can you tell me a little.
Maury Thompson: I think the other shows tried to. Copy. You know that not word for word read, but the premise and that type of thing, and they never worked, never worked at Desi did a cameo on E Varden show, you know, and he was having trouble, so I wasn’t working. So he called me and I went over and I directed the rest the show and. And he was drinking and his cameo was isolated from the rest of the show. But if it fit into the premise so. Oh, it was. He was just terrible. And. And E Eve Arden is the lady of television. I hope she never caused any problem, nothing, you know. So this particular day, the day before the. We shot it. And we have a run through. And so here came Desie. He wanted to see how things were going. And they had to help him into his captain Cherry. And he just mumbled through that and went to sleep. So they’re here. So when they’re even all over doing their act just for him, you know? So finally, he caught my eye and winked. And she just quietly turned around and left. Went back to her little dressing room. And he didn’t wake up. So finally we said, let’s go, because it was the last thing of the day anyway. So we just everyone went. I didn’t. I stayed. And Louis Nicoletti was a man that he brought up from New York was there. And so we just let him sleep. He come through a murmur and, you know, you almost fall out of the chair. And I thought, well, I Dessy. I have to go. Now we’re through the same go. He knew he didn’t ask where was he or anything. So I said, Louis. Everything’s gone. You take care of it. It was his bodyguard and everything. So that was the last thing he ever did that I know of on the stage. And never heard a word from Eve. He never. The next day we did it. And he was. He didn’t give me any booze. You see. No. You have to work today. And even though he was alone, isolated, we could do that. You know, we could just do take out of it what we wanted. He understood. Understood.
Interviewer: I want to go back to some of the more you want to clear your throat and take a sip of water. We should change. Now, let’s get to that. All right, we’re gonna go back a little bit. Do you remember opening night, the very first time you ever filmed an episode of the I Love Lucy show? And can you describe. I can imagine it must have been hectic. I understand he was still kind of building the bleachers or putting the finishing paint on the set. Can you tell us a little bit about the mood that night?
Maury Thompson: The mood on opening night was sensational. First of all, when I saw her at the readings, I never saw with makeup on or anything. It was just she was just herself. And I kept looking at the car sitting this close to her. I kept looking at the how are they going to make a star out of her? She looks terrible. No, I no actions or anything say anything. But I think I was just curious to see what was going to happen. And it came time for her entrance. Well, every day she comes out, warms up the audience and then introduces Bill Frawley in advance. But none of the just the principals. And then she comes out. Dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, you know. And here she comes through that curtain. And I’m still I got I just couldn’t believe what I saw. Beautiful in a pale blue negligee with fur around the bottom and fur around here. And at those blue eyes with they put a blue light on her. You know why that place just went crazy? She takes this big, great, big ballet. She runs one into the stage and bows and she wonders the other way and vows they can’t get enough of her, you know? Well, finally, I can relax. Tears are running down my face at that. Oh, now I see what happens because it was where I expected her to be. Just gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. And she had an apricot one, too, the same color with her hair. And that was a good one, too. But it was an exciting night, right? Soon after that. Oh, four or five shows later. See, I said, as close as I’m seeing on the set, she’s acting right here. But I am very close because if she looks, I’ll know she wants a line thrown or whatever. And this particular night got getting way to go. And she had full dress and sitting in a chair and I looked down and it was caught under the leg of the chair. When she gets up, it’s going to tip over, you know. So the director was up in the booth and he said, okay, places, everyone. Wait a minute. Well, I’m not to say wait a minute to the director. And I just ignored it. I said, honey, get up your skirts. Corta, Elusive, Smatter. Your gown is caught in the chairs. Oh. So she got up and then I pulled a chair. Just tipped it. Right. And she sat down. I put it like that. So stuffing a big flower, you know. And she’s more. I want to see you after the show. Oh, my God. I hate that here I’ve gone this far and I’m going to get fired. I just know she’s going to because I interrupted. I should never the union will throw me out. Oh, so when. Laughter The show at my stomach was just on fire. And so what did my paperwork. So and so on. And the goody two shoes, people were there and said, oh, you’re wonderful, wonderful to her. And they’ve left. So I was she was in her dressing room with the hairdresser taking her. We go and I knock knock back. Yes. Who is it? Maury. Oh, Murray. So I went in, says how much they pay you. And I told you so I went to Dublin. You gentlemen accounting Lucille Ball said your salaries doubled. You stick with the money, you stick with me. Honey, I’ll stick with you.Well, from that studio, 20 pounds lighter. Oh, I thought, oh. And she just she loved it. She knew I was keeping an eye on her. And from then on, I never her let her down. Ever. Ever. And that was my job. She she would come to me and say, what do you think of this outfit? I’m not in wardrobe, but she respected me. And I loved it. And the directors wouldn’t say anything. Well, when she when she asked me if she asked the director how she had on, the director said, perfect, just perfect. They. Oh, yes, Mama. You know, I don’t. And I opened my little patient in the bleachers and she said, Okay, Mary, what do you think? Right over his head. Jack Donahue, who’s a real. Big shot. And. I just want to crawl under the seat. Right. That’s it. Well, I think we can do better. Send me to. I love that because I wasn’t trying to grandstand or get on her good side. I just if I didn’t like it, I said to if like, does it perfect. There were a lot of those perfect score. She just looked great. I mean, her. And that’s a hard job. Those bear outfits there. She’s just dripping with perspiration, you know, there’s terrible things to wear and be funny and be pretty.
Interviewer: How did you wind up being on camera in the Vegemite a vitamin episode?
Maury Thompson: Because she was nervous about that because you see what happens. Oh, invited me to Benjamin. She said, I want more to be made up. I wanted you made up. And I said, well, my back’s to the camera. I know. But I want you. I want you to be in the shot because I’m not easy. I’m not easy with this thing. The mixing them all up. You know, she could mix up, but they got to make something make sense, you know. So they made me up mean all those big shots of when she gets awards in Washington, D.C. here, I take it back. And I knew in my own mind that she would not condescend to be corrected on film. I just knew that she wanted that support. That’s all because I’m this close to her, you know, and the and the director in the show was right next to and he went up to her. He had a line with her. And because we did it a couple days before, she knew what it meant to me that Benjamin, you know, so I never thought of that. It just sounded funny to her, you know. So that was the contact I had with her. You know, I know I could say anything or do anything. I go to the horse races with her and what’s a fun thing, you know? And she was comfortable with me. I’d fly with her and get off the plane. Her nails are still on my arm, you know, or she wouldn’t let go.
Interviewer: What kind of person was she when she was on stage when you were at the race?
Maury Thompson: Very much fun. Natural. Just lots of fun. Was very nice with people because when they were staying at the beach house and then she was drive across the street to racetrack. And this one particular day there, she had two maids, black ladies. Darling, darling, ladies. I just wish both of them will remain so they as we’re going out to do that door to the parking lot. Willie Maciste, remember Bellringer in the second race? And Lucille knows to put a couple of bucks on, you know, cause but they have their radio one in the kitchen. And so we got the car. She said, oh, should I you know, I don’t get there often. I’m late. The people stop her and she doesn’t never get set for the first race. So we went and hit a box and I’m there in second race. And this. What’s the signal that there were other races, I guess, that this was weak, Bellringer was coming up and she goes like this, you can’t see who she’s betting on, just the two of us. It may be a different story, but it was 20 to one. And I. I can’t afford to throw my money away like that. I was making Patty nothing and that even though she doubled it. So she. The race was run, ran, and then it came in and won. Won. And after a couple races later, Lucille says, how are you doing? I said, Oh, okay. Don’t tell me you weren’t on Bellringer. I should know 20 to one should always. Oh, he’s a black person, gives you a tip. Bet on it. Don’t ever, ever cause they know the horses and everything. They’re wonderful. So we got we got ups. And I don’t tell the gals that we got here in time. So we drove in the parking lot behind the cottage and went into the back door, entered through the kitchen and they said. Their eyes were this big around, as they knew, heard on the radio, 20 to one. And they won. Well, who put quite a hunk of money on it? And so she just dropped all this money on the kitchen floor and kept walking. Well, it all gouged out there. The. They’re rolling dice. Grab the money. Oh, wonderful. She does things like that. You know, nice things and fun things. Very few people have worked for their work. Well, Willie Mae was with her raise the kids and everything for years.
Interviewer: Besides going to the races, what did she like to do in her free time? And she wasn’t here to.
Maury Thompson: Play games. Scab. Oh, my timing was good. But it’s wrong when she’s at home and not working. She she’ll call people to come over and play with her. It was kind of sad, you know. To have to and obviously pay them to play with her. And I remember down to Palm Springs. I went down for a weekend when Scrabble had just come in. And just the two of us there at the bungalow and will be me and the kids somewhere on the beach or something. And she said, you play Scrabble? And I said, well, I heard about that. I guess I haven’t played it, but I guess I could always play it. So we played a game and I won. And she won’t finish the game. She when she sees you, don’t lose. She does. Okay, that’s enough. That would play another one. She doesn’t want to be sad that she lost. So we played another one. And I won again. And I thought this game is not so bad, you know? Let’s put a quarter on the corner. I never won another game all day long. When you put the quarter on the corner, her ear went right up and she had words like X, Y, Z, Double T or something, you know, something I’ve never heard of in your whole life. And but she didn’t let me. She let me win the first two. They egg me on. After that, you’re on your own, buddy. You’re not going to win anything. And I’ll show you how it’s done. She’ll go to the races without me. And when I was over there, we went up to the races with that particular day. She opened her back and was just stuffed with money. And I grabbed let’s carry that type of money around for, you know, would you give that kind of money? So that blonde over there that she played poker with her the night before. Just skin you alive. You know, she’s very good at games. Very good. So don’t get involved.
Interviewer: Well, it’s interesting, isn’t you. If you had to put a psychological explanation, did she not want to be alone? Is that why she wanted people to come out?
Maury Thompson: Right.
Interviewer: Why not? Why wasn’t she at the beach with her kids? I mean. Well. Oh.
Maury Thompson: She didn’t want to be alone. She didn’t want to be alone. She wanted Dessy differences to be with the kids because he was home so seldom. We went swimming one one afternoon, and so I took the kids and played with them. And yes, he was over at the race, at the clubhouse. It was the Kentucky Derby was being run. And Lucy Gypsy, I wish he had come home if kids want to go and swim as well as swim with them. They didn’t beat any man ever day off, you know. So finally she went in and put on her bathing suit and she looked wonderful. Kelly Green with her and she said, You’re the only one in the world I’d ever go in a swimming pool with meaning me. I had both the kids swirling around and it was a delight to see if she swam the full length of the pool four times just. With no care, no problems. And she swam well, and when she got out, I said, My Lord, why did you do that every day? You know, that’s what you need. I just watched you go and you just. And you look great. No swings is. Oh, yeah. And she told me, you little so-and-so. So said, come on, we’re going to get Dessy. So we go over. We think that golf cart. Just she and I. And we go. She was in the passenger side and she made sure that she hit every bump in the golf course. Because you bounce just like that. There’s no springs. It’s just a tennis at. We went we got park right in front of the entrance to the. And we got into the theater part where the big screen was. And here is Dessy with about ten or twelve women, young gals all over him and around him, play with his hair and the whole thing. And she said, do you stay right here? Don’t you move to eat. You stay right here. So here she puts her arms around me. I felt like a fool. Yeah. So I had shoot you. And she started playing with, you know. And one of the gals. Oh, there’s Lucy and Desi’s. Come on down, honey. Come on. The race is about ready to start. No, I want you to come home. The kids want to go swimming. Come on home. And I thought, oh, how cruel. You know, she wouldn’t go down. And she made I’ve forgotten what the remark was for something about those chicks. You’ve got enough chicks for everybody or something like that. And we got back in the cart way we went. And when he came home, there was no no problem. No problem. She got her way. But, you know, she could play with him. But she didn’t play with him. She would dig him. He was a marvelous cook, desperate, marvelous cook, Rose Campoy. We’ll have that with big, thick sirloin steaks. He’ll be there all day long fixing the Royce Cowboy Lucy could use when she wanted to. I’ve got all oh, that pan in there with the brownies in his hers. Well, he may have cooked her big ham with pineapple and cherries and the whole thing for them when I was there one day. Oh, Willie made. That’s the most beautiful. Would you make me one? Sure. So she made me one about two weeks later in this Lewine and Pan. And so take it as well. I’ll bring my house so she’s got enough pansies. I have a store. It is right there. It’s a heavy old pan, I use it all the time. But, you know, she doesn’t get much chance to cook because they cook all day long. Really, Mae? And then there’s him now and then. So she does want to show her hand. You know, she’s got to compete with those people.
Interviewer: She was ultimately a very wealthy woman. What is your sense of what she did with her money that she traveled and she liked to five things. She spent it on other people. What did she do with honor?
Maury Thompson: Lucio didn’t like to travel. They went I mentioned to her several times about going on one of my trips, you know, not with her. And I mentioned what I saw something. So she finally did go to Italy. And. I got to go. I have in this country Capri. So they went to Capri and they closed the whole shopping of the island. So she gave her carte blanche to go around, do whatever she wanted to shop. And I think she got one ring out of that. And they were a stack of diamonds that came up to a point. And she wore every day after that, every performance rating. That ring ring is on her finger. She when she got back and said, well, how is Capri? Oh, that pile of rocks. That’s what she saw. She didn’t see anything. She. Now, what else did you ask me about?
Interviewer: Well, just the notion of what she chose to do with her first simple personality. From your description that she was.
Maury Thompson: I used to go shopping with Lucille Ball. She’d call me and we’d shoot the show on Thursday. Calls me on Friday and say go shopping with her. And I think I don’t want to buy anything that she would. So she she would go on trial and close in in the show window of the store and parade around a little bit. Don’t. Oh. I was saying today, like, so associates leave. And I thought was a waste of people’s time. We’re waiting on her. It was. So let’s go to silk shop. So we went to the silk shop. Can you pick out a dress for me? You pick out a yardage for me now. I’ll choose a couple. So we chose five. Yardage would say, Richard, where yardage and and cut them. And I chose one that she had to share. She liked it, but it won’t take long. So following Monday, I said, how did the yardage work out? I said, a back. As well, you’re not allowed to send them all back when you come home like that. Oh, they’ll do something with him. They just are spoiled rotten. You know, people make fools of themselves over this celebrity. And doing what? We’re used to daily.
Interviewer: It’s just it’s an interesting thought to think of somebody who could have had anything, who could have done anything with her money. Well, you know, where did it all go?
Maury Thompson: Did she just she didn’t need that much to make her property share property. But that was done by the powers that be. You know, she didn’t know anything. But, you know, she just had no interest in in much of anything. She looked nice in the clothes that she chose. But they’re all made for her, you know. So they’re bound to fit like paper on the wall. But she had no. At Christmas time, I was the one chosen to buy the gift for Miss Ball, and for 16 years I ran out of ideas. But there was one time during the war when the Vietnamese war. And I couldn’t think of anything. And someone said something about the orphans over there. All barefoot and have no shoes or anything. So I decided to buy. Oh, I think 300 pairs of thongs with little Dessy and Lucie’s card on either on each one. You know, I thought that was a that would be fine with her. So it was always a day of dress rehearsal that we would give her her Christmas package. She gives you your package in October. I’ll tell you about that woman. And she.
Interviewer: Talking about the we’re speeding here. OK, so you’re going to finish the story about the kids in Vietnam and the thongs.
Maury Thompson: At Christmas time. It’s very difficult to.
Interviewer: One second of them. I thought we had the first part of the story before we started. We can edit it together so you don’t have to go back. Just try to pick up where we left off, which is you thought that she was going to like this present. I have a feeling there’s something coming. Oh.
Maury Thompson: I don’t know how to get into it.
Interviewer: Well, that you had I rang with brains and you thought about buying these thongs, the little Lucy and the little Dessy.
Maury Thompson: So it came time for her to open the gift. And here’s all the crew standing around and there was a card and kind of shoe shoebox thing. And it has to be tied with a ribbon, that whole thing, not just in a bag. So she opened it and read the card and said. OK, well, let’s go out. We got a lot of work to do, and I said, wait a minute. Read it to the crew. They’re the ones who spent the money because everyone in the crew. I’m not giving a dollar, for Christ’s sake. Yeah, right. So it’s like pulling teeth to get a dollar out of all of them. They’re very lucky to have a job. Good job like that is it pays. So anyway, she said, oh yes. Very nice. So she read it and then and cruel to me and went like this, you know, it’s a big deal if you really did it this time. And many of the gifts she should have remark to make about them, you know, like, oh, I’ve got to now move seven. You know, I water an urn. And I didn’t know that Jess Oppenheimer had given her one years ago, you know. So when she saw it says, oh, I’ve got to now. The crew. She never she didn’t have much class. That way, you know, she pretty bold.
Interviewer: Tell me about the October Christmas gifts for the crew. Why was she giving you your Christmas box in October? I.
Maury Thompson: I was walking by her dressing room and she said to me, Maury, come in here. So I went in and there was a little radio sitting there, just beautiful tone. But but but this big, you know, portable and what you think of that? It was quite a good tone. That’s why she said as your Christmas present. Well, it was ruled by Christmas. I always kind of look forward to somebody, give me something nice, you know? So I said, well, we now know you’re gonna get it at Christmas time. But Gary went out and got a good buy out a few of. So you’re getting one of. And in meantime, there’s a nameplate. I still have that. I’ve got it in my closet. The nameplate Love Lucy engraved on the top. Little concert. Seventy five cents on the top. Oh. So it just got to the point is that, well, why bother? So then one year I gave her to blooming gardenia trees. I mean, big ones like this, you know. And they had to bring him in on trucks, you know. And they had real blossom time. And then I got to swipe those and put I put Rhinestone in their eyes in a rhinestone under their tail and did of all over the trees would look wonderful. And we wrapped the stem, the trunk with a white satin ribbon. And she said, Oh. And then she walked around and they really Florida because they were so big. And so what am I going to do with these? I said they’re not going to go in your dressing room, that’s for sure. So the next time we went out there to the house there, they were growing, growing. And right by her dad. So when they went to good cause, because we went out one day, she was feeling well. And she said she stayed home and she called and said, send in the cast in. And Maury out to the house. We’ll have. After lunch. After lunch, we’ll. We’ll read out here on the line. So we were we went out. We were all reading the script and making changes and everything and says, who’d like an ice cream cone? Well, we all raised our hand. You know what? We may bring out ice cream. So here, can we leave me with single Dacres? No double dagger’s single dekkers. And we all partook. And I watched her. She would take that. She’d take a look and then she’d go like this with her arm. I think something’s wrong with her arm, you know. And then she took a look. What are you doing? Well, the dogs were down there and they take a look and then she take a look and then she. I said, I have heard of you. How do you know where those tongues have been, you know? And she just said, well, you never had a dog. You wouldn’t understand. I said, you’re right. I don’t understand it. I never saw anything like that in my life. But she loved dogs and cats and dogs shows two or three year round. Dessy wanted to have a dog. So she’s okay. You have a dog, but you ever get that phone downtown? You know, I’m not gonna get you registered one. So they all went down and he picked out some mutt down there and brought her home and they had that dog for years. So she had those good qualities about her. Scooby. The other thing.
Interviewer: Memories of what kind of a person just was. Give me that in a nutshell.
Maury Thompson: Just Oppenheimer hired me. I was the first one hired. On the crew. And that is the sweetest man I ever knew in my life. He’s a dear, dear man. And he and she got along beautifully. And I don’t know anything about the particulars with Madeline and Bob and all that. I don’t mean to personalize that. But, I mean.
Interviewer: How did you see her work with the writers on the set? Were they there at the run Theroux’s? Did she rewrite or did she pretty much accept the scripts the way they were?
Maury Thompson: Lucille never rewrote the scripts. She depended so much on Jess and Marilyn, but their taste. And whatever went wrong. She would go to the haven’t come down on the set and they would enter in a few more words or something and maybe go back up to the offices. Right. She was very. And whatever they said was okay with her because she trusted them.
Interviewer: Tell us about a little bit about moving forward in time now. Dick Martin, we interviewed yesterday at his home in Malibu and he played the boyfriend. Oh, but we use it. Yeah. No, you weren’t the director, but you were the camera coordinator the first year of the Lucy show.
Maury Thompson: Oh, yeah.
Interviewer: Do you remember how Dick Martin fit into this little family that had been together for so many years?
Maury Thompson: This Dick Martin is. I know she wanted him. She wanted. She like his his comedy. And Roland Martin to Roland Martin worked with us, too. But those are two that have kind of floated away from me somehow. I don’t know. I’m not. I know I liked both of them very much. They’re very personable and they they knew how to play with her. You’ve got to play with Lucille. You know, because I’m Mickey Rooney. She had a bad time with Mickey Rooney. He wouldn’t come out. He could be photographed with her for the publicity picture. That’s why I’ve posed with her in the position of Mickey Rooney. I use that as my autographed picture. You know.
Interviewer: How about her relationship with Bill Asher? He certainly was there for a lot of the early years and then came back for some of the later years. How did they work together?
Maury Thompson: He was he was it wasn’t that great.
Interviewer: OK. Tell me a little bit about Bill Asher in terms of his working relationship with Lucille.
Maury Thompson: I think he was leery of her.
Interviewer: We don’t know who you are.
Maury Thompson: Oh. I hate to say it.
Interviewer: Well, don’t characterize. I mean, how can we say he was her director and was you strong director? Did he stand up to Lucy? Did he back down? How did that whole dynamic work, from your point of view?
Maury Thompson: When Billy Asher came here, he was there. I see Mark Daniels was there. The two first two years, then Billy Asher replaced him. And it was new to him. Three cameras was a new system to him. So I was very close to him because he was depending a lot on me then. And that he knew what to do. But I would say I think this is going to get in the way with the wide angle was in the center. The close ups are on the side, you know, on it’s a very tricky, tricky business. So he had quite a time, I think, in my mind, of making it go easily. But I think he was a little leery of her. She barks, you know, and it scares everybody to death. But OK.
Interviewer: How about Carol Burnett, you directed two half hour episodes of The Lucy Show where Carol Burnett came and guest star. You remember Carol and how they worked together?
Maury Thompson: Absolutely. She was very fond of Carol. Lucille was very fond of Carol. And Carol’s a trooper. She is a she just exactly what you see in her if like if she’s on a panel of something. She’s just honest. An easy, easy, easy to be with. And I remember she had to do a stripper number with a curtain, you know, because she was forced. She took a room at the Lucille’s house in the show and they thought she was a librarian. But they found out when she had a couple of glasses of wine, she was a stripper. Really. And that was the story premise. And we broke for lunch on this particular day when rehearsal and Carol came missing. Worry. Were you. Were you going for lunch? I said, why? Says, Well, you got a couple of minutes you could spare. And I said, Sure, I’ll get lunch later. They’ll bring me something. So she wanted me to help her with the strip dance, you know, with the curtain and the whole thing. And Lucille came back early that day from lunch, wouldn’t you know? You know, and she walked in and she said, OK, what’s going on here? And I said and I told her, I said, well said, just leave her be. Let let her do it. She knows what she wants to do. And there’s Carol standing. And Carol said Maury. I think I got it now. See, trooper, trooper, trooper. And we’d been just a few because Kelsey, you have to tell me every step to take. I’m not a dancer, you know. And she wanted to be good. But Lucille wanted her to be photographed. The best. That we could do. She wants her to be good. Because she’d like you so well. She wanted her to. Her performance to be top drawer, you know.
Interviewer: But was she jealous of the time that you were spending with Carol? Is that what bothered her? Can you tell me explain why she separated you when she came back from lunch?
Maury Thompson: You can never explain any action of Lucille. She is even embarrassed at times. When she and when she analyzes what she’s she just wants to kill herself because she shouldn’t have done that. But no way is she going to admit it. No way. But she’s often said about Carol that she loved her and she just thought she was a marvelous comedienne.
Interviewer: Now you became the director of the Lucy show. Tell us what it was like. You’ve obviously known her from the beginning, she knew you from the beginning when you were just a little guy starting out in the business. And here you are, the director. What was she like to direct at that point, from your perspective?
Maury Thompson: First of all, Lucille is going to quit. She made up her mind she’d had enough. Now she’d had enough and. Tommy Thompson was the assistant director and I was the coordinator and I said to him, you know, you and I are in the driver’s seat. We’re in a good spot. She’s ready to quit. And if we came up with a good idea. But she’d go on. And he said, Oh, what, what what can we do? I said, let’s get together. So he came to my house a couple of weekends and we wrote up some simple little things, just changing and letting Gail is transferred to the bank in Hollywood. And Lucille sent the kids to finishing school in California. And then Lucille comes out to visit the kids and she goes to the bank. And there she’s tied in with Gail. That’s as simple as that. And I said, then she can have a sports car and dress sporty like she likes to do was. So we drew up a presentation and all of Wanda, that’s her secretary, darling gal. And I said, can we get an appointment with her? Quick. She said she’s coming in today to get her hair done on Saturday because she’s going to go out. So I’m sure. So they made three. But she’s getting ahead with the firm accusingly.And so Tommy and I went on a Saturday. When we went to the in the bush is being made up in the mirror. She could see us. You know, I understand you want to talk to me now. Talk fast because I made time for you. I said, well, all I need is for I don’t have five minutes. I said, well, Lucille just it’s very simple. It will take time. I’ll be in the little living room. And as soon as you’re finished there, just walk in and sit down and read it. One page. It’s all. All right. So here she comes through the door doing your nails. Now, what is it you want me to read? I said this right there on the coffee table. Just just read it. So she’s opened the pages and holds them with her elbows. I can see this very well. And she’s going to. Who wrote this crap? We did. Sure you do. I like it. I think it has merit. I see you’re kidding. We just this is a skeleton. You know? I don’t care. I think it would work. Brooke brought the family together. I think it’s her. She grabbed the phone off the coffee table, dialed New York. Got a hold of Pavic Perry. There’s Rosie. We’re going to go on crack. Want to tell our. So I’m getting out of here. I’m getting the hell out of here, so I got a get going. We leave now. Well, we both felt like our pants had dropped right to the floor. You know, you’re standing there now. What do you do? Do you walk or do you fall? What happens? Who do we talk to? That’s the way we got the job. Being in the right place at the right time where you could direct attention. Yeah. So you know everything about it. You do the cameras. You certainly know that. I’ll do that thing. Tommy, what are you going to do? You check the music scores that that. So it was just when we walked out of that down the alley down to our car. Do you know what just happened? We got a job that many people outside of that gate could do better, but were in the driver’s seat. And that’s how he got in.
Interviewer: All right. Fast forward. Now you’re the director. You’re on the set. The scripts are right and you’re rehearsing. Are you getting ready to shoot? What is she like with you in that situation?
Maury Thompson: Well, we started directing when I started directing. She respected me. She’d been with me all this time and she respected me, but she wasn’t sure, you know, what she had, that she had taken a big step. Now she’s in charge of the whole shebang now. And I felt it, you know, so I would go to us now. Look, if you’re not comfortable, tell me. No, everything’s fine. So you’re sure fast and get things done without her being there just to gain time. You know, if it was a simple down front of a curtain or something, boy, I’d get that out of the way. Right. What for? And she’s waving. Did it without me. Well, we don’t need you to do the whole performance. We got just the movements. And I know where you’re going to move through. I guided the camera’s marked the floor. We were doing. But she wasn’t used. You didn’t like that to be doing something without her there. So she was rarely late. She’d be there. She did one a Carol Burnett again. She wasn’t there to see what was going on. No, but she was very good. Very good. Until the very, very end. I mean, it wasn’t so good. You see with. With Lucille. She doesn’t know who loves her and who doesn’t. She’s suspicious of everyone. They’re out to get her. I asked her. I remember when that show was just first number one for the first time back in the nineteen fifties. As what happens now, sir. Honey, they’ll scratches till they get us right down to the nitty gritty. They’ll pull us absolutely every way possible to make us give up. But we’ll show. Not going to work this time. She said to me and made me feel good and secure.
Interviewer: Well, it’s interesting hearing you describe this person who had a hard time accepting affection. Had a hard time accepting gifts and had a hard time accepting love, even probably from her husband and her children. And yet, on some level, she solicited and was comfortable with the adulation of millions and millions of people. Can you tell us a little bit about the dichotomy in that, the contradictions in that?
Maury Thompson: When I go to the convention now and I’m on the panel and I’m up here looking at those people that are so thrilled to hear a word about her plan, when we’re off the panel, I walk by, they just follow us around to being close to the one that touched her. It’s a new thing. We went to work. We got off at six o’clock. I went home. There was no legend in our minds. No one thought of the word in our vocabulary. So I would stare at him as I’m sitting on a panel on the stage and I think. Well, I guess I was that way when I was a kid. I wanted so to come to to be in the movies, you know, I wanted so I felt it was my forte and I wanted to do it towards way. And then when the newbie said, you should be in front of the cameras, you know. But I never, never. Just a little bits that are on print now is all I have, you know. But. She she would never. She gave me one chance on the airplane going to London. And I was shocked. It was just a little bit, but I was through the last 15 minutes of the film, was always on camera with her. And then when we finished, the author was there, the writer. Forgotten his name. Sandy Brown Burns or something like. And he leaned over the railings and worry, you did it just exactly the way I wanted it. And she’s at the other end of the table with her feet up on the table, just relaxing. And I looked at her thinking she would certainly say, I agree, not just that much would have done my heart good. Not a word. Just let me. So you can’t you couldn’t figure out, you just could not because she’s unpredictable. You give us some fun little thing and she would just cherish it. And the next thing shoots for fur. You know, you never knew I could tell her how the day was gonna be when I would see her come on the set. I knew. I knew, I knew. And I would leave her alone. And when she got ready, then I’m there.
Interviewer: But is it your sense that she enjoyed the celebrity, that she enjoyed the worship that she enjoyed even during her lifetime? Never mind, since she’s passed away?
Maury Thompson: Oh, sure. She worked hard. She worked hard. From the day she O Lucille worked hard. From the very day she left home, she would. I gave a little talk at the hospital where I volunteer. And this lady came up to me and I knew that she was a show business woman, you know. And she said to me, Maury, I understand everything you say. And today, because I know Lucille Ball says, I was once in New York that was pounding the bricks at the same time she was. And so I remember one day there were fifteen. I was sitting in the reception room for a trial to see if we could. And who came in late, Miss Ball. And she went right through right through the doors past. The secretary slammed the door and the secretary went in with secretary announces it’s been filled. That’s how she got her start. Just step on anybody. Go on. Forget it.
Interviewer: Tell me about as she aged, her voice got deeper. She didn’t like the close ups so much. And then she retired and really lost the thing that she loved more than anything. Can you just tell us a little bit about that later part of her life from your perception?
Maury Thompson: Well, as we know, as I know what I’ve seen over the years, she depended so much on Dessy. With the brains, you know, and she knew she needed him. And she she was the talent and he admits it, too. But the two of them made it. But the Singley there, she was lost. She just absolute and no enthusiasm to do it. And the scripts were bad that the shows after Adebisi and after the Lucy show that I felt were just not I was embarrassed. She invited me to come and see the show. And I thought when I say. She she introduced me front in front of the audience. It came out supporters worry. You know, keep the light. Why didn’t you tell me you’re gonna be here in front of the audience? And the audience would look at me. Who’s that squirt? Who’s that? Pat. Strange, strange girl, can’t you.
Interviewer: And I guess. Were you in communication when she was finally retired from television and wasn’t working anymore? Did you know her during that, those latter days?
Maury Thompson: Oh, sure. But a very slight you know, she ate people. She’d give parties and nobody would come. I said to one day. Why did you give a party so you could nobody would come? So I threw a more shrimp than I could. It’s in the market, you know, too. She knew where she stood. You know, she. But you can think about it. She couldn’t. Some of the visiting stars were terrible. Joan Crawford, just to throw up between every scene. You know.
Interviewer: But why would I don’t understand that? Why if Lucille Ball was going to have a party, would nobody come? You have to explain that to me.
Maury Thompson: Well. The reason no one comes is that she has to be in charge. She will wear you out emptying your ashtrays and offering you another drink and making you drink it. That’s not true. But I mean, force Fourche, you know, you couldn’t sit still. So here is here’s another ashtray. No, she’s claiming she’s got women in the kitchen standing around, but she just is so uneasy. She’s uncomfortable around other people, especially around there. Well, certain stars she likes, but look out for the ones she does. She’ll make it possible for her.
Interviewer: And you have painted, as have others, a picture of a very controlling woman. And that’s served her well in certain ways. And it was a disservice to her, I think, in her personal life. Why do you think she needed to be in control all the time? Well, she afraid of.
Maury Thompson: Well, that’s what we don’t know. I mean, no one knows that she. She had no reason to. If she were a little more tempered, you know. Her mother was. Powerful, too. So she got but naturally. And yet she worshipped her mother. Only woman. Any person she wears is her mother over kids.
Interviewer: What was she like as a mother to her own child?
Maury Thompson: Oh, for what they’ve been through, they’re pretty too. Pretty nice kids. I love Lucy and Desi, the last time I saw him, he grabbed me and just hung on like that. Oh, finally I found some strength here, you know, cause I loved both those kids, carry them around on my hip. And, you know, it’s family as really a family, but the. You can just go so far with her.
Interviewer: Do you think she found the role of motherhood difficult? Can you tell me?
Maury Thompson: But you didn’t have much. She didn’t have much time. As a mother at home. And the kids missed that. And that she was so injured, raptured with them if anything happened at the studio. What’s all summer? All my kids. You know, we got all that big scene. Oh, my kids, my kids. But when she’s with them, she’s jerking them around in their home movies and little Lucy. She’s holding loose on her lap and Lucy’s squirming out. She put softly. She’s just that way. She’s had even little Ricky, little Ricky, that child. I’m surprised that he is a wreck because Death’s Lucy was expecting a Grown-Up performance. And it’s important to think four years old, you know, get grabbed kids by the hair and hands. Stand still. At Lucie’s Lucy’s wedding. There was a couple there and there, Lucy had believes and left and gone. And they’d sprinkle the rice. Well, here’s Lucille sweeping up the rice on the hardwood floor. So somebody won’t suer, you know, trip on the rice slip. And here she is with a big mop well out there. And there’s Lucy going out the walk. We were all. And I walked back in the room and here was this man and his wife with their little kid. And the little kid was crying. He came to see all through the room, says, what’s wrong with him? And the mother said, well, he didn’t get a chance to throw his rise. What’s the matter with you? And she grabbed him by the hair and the father said, we’ll take care of him. Just leave me alone. Don’t otherwise keep your hands to yourself. But she grabbed like that and jerked the head back. Scared him to death. I said to the gallows with us. I think we better get out of here. It’s time. And she never looked back. She heard us. Now, see there at the wedding, they had a big tent out there with big dishes of shrimp. And if nobody went near. Nobody took the time, want to get out?
Interviewer: I just want to take you back to a picture in your den at the Coconut Grove of a lot of people sitting at beautiful banquet tables. Red Skelton in the foreground, Lucille and just like pick out in the middle. And you were there that night. Tell me about that Emmy Award presentation where Lucy didn’t win and Red did. And do you remember what he said? Can you tell us paint the picture a little bit of what’s going on in that photograph?
Maury Thompson: At the there was the fourth Emmy Awards, 1952, and she was in charge of the table and the invitations, who would go and who didn’t.
Maury Thompson: And I’m the only one from the crew that was invited. And the awards were in the process of being given out and the red one. And when he went up, he thank you. But he said, as far as I’m concerned, Lucy should have won this. And Lucille said from the table, Oh, or earn my own. Well, they weren’t going to. He wasn’t going to give it to her anyway, but she had from what is out on my own. And she did she one after one after another. After another. Another. I was nominated from the Lucy show and I didn’t win it. And then she won for Best Show. And when she came past my table, she had a scarf that went around her neck and trailed, you know, and then it went right past my face. And she never said I was sorry. You didn’t get the award or anything. Not a word. It’s easier to escape. Get out. She will stay to eat. She will stay for. To talk to any of her and others. The stars are all kind of milling around and enjoying it.
Interviewer: You’re sort of describing somebody who is just uncomfortable in their own skin.
Maury Thompson: Huh? Huh?
Interviewer: It’s interesting. And yet she was so comfortable when she was playing part.
Maury Thompson: Yeah. So you you never go up to her without announcing that you’re there because she’ll just holler and sucker, you know, she’ll just give you a belt. So she’s unpredictable. You just never knew what she was going to do.
Interviewer: I want to take you back to Red Skelton for a moment, because I asked you that you recorded the girls go into business and you said not at all, and that she was quite remarkable on the face of adversity. Can you just tell me a little bit about that?
Maury Thompson: I know.
Interviewer: The week that you filmed.
Maury Thompson: Oh, yeah.
Interviewer: The girls go into business.
Maury Thompson: OK.
Interviewer: Underneath a tremendous amount of strain. You didn’t know that much at the time. But in retrospect, you have heard about.
Maury Thompson: This particular night when.
Interviewer: I filmed the girls go into bed.
Maury Thompson: Okay, and this particular night that we filmed, the girls go into business. We had this commotion going on. There was plainclothes men standing around in the audience and on right at the foot of the on the floor. And no one knew what on earth was going on. And she at first thought it was something to do with her kids again. And then they got to her and said, no, this is what happened. Then Desi was taking care of her and and introduced tears as the redhead. And even that’s false, that type of thing. And. You can never tell. She’s such a good actress. You know? She can cry at the drop of your hat. She can laugh at the top here, acting it one way or another. It doesn’t matter. You don’t see any preparation coming or anything that’s going to. Oh, she’s going to laugh. I know you will know what to happen to know tonight. It’s very good that it’s very good. But, oh, she was upset, of course, because she thought would get out of hand. You know, it would attract media headlines and everything.
Interviewer: But could you see the strain in her performance that.
Maury Thompson: No policy, no big. I would never I would say that you couldn’t see the strain, her performance. But we knew, you know. You know, in your eyes, how could she do this? You know, how can she be a clown? But that’s the strengths of being such a great actress. She is.
Interviewer: This is going to be my last question. And then a couple of other people might chime in with things that are on their mind. What you’ve really described for us today. And I think we’re missing like a summary statement about her. You’ve portrayed this person who’s unbelievably uncomfortable in her real self when she’s not onstage and doesn’t have the makeup and the hair eyelashes and she doesn’t have the lines and the performance to do for people. Maybe she was shy. Maybe she was insecure. Maybe she didn’t like herself very much. We don’t know. But you’ve presented someone who’s sort of profoundly discontent with real life and only comes to life in a way and is great on the stage. And I think that that that is somehow a logical thing, that perhaps she was drawn to the stage into performing because that was the only place that she finally felt comfortable. Do you believe any of this? Can you be any of that? I believe all of it. All right. Tell me a little bit about this.
Maury Thompson: I think Lucille is insecure. That is the main thing that bothers her because she’s office often when she gets herself into a bind, then she wants to apologize. And she just can not get it out. She cannot. Then she’ll start playing with you in the afternoon of the day. It might happen somewhere along the line. She’ll try to make up to you or try to make amends with everyone around her that saw what happened. Do you know why would she do this to herself? Unnecessary. Unnecessary.
Interviewer: But somehow in that performing self, you forgave her because you said at the beginning you thought she was so talented that you put up with all the nonsense because nobody was as good as she was. Can you tell me about that part? Tell me about the forgiveness on your part. Because she was so remarkable.
Maury Thompson: Well, I didn’t. The skinny, I didn’t forgive her. At the time. You know, I rebelled. You know, I fought her. I just when you get away from her and your life goes normal somehow or another, then you forget, you forget even now that she’s gone. I rarely think of the bad things that happened or her idiosyncrasies or whatever, because we all tried to help her. She didn’t know the people that loved her. She didn’t know the people that didn’t love her. She couldn’t keep them apart. People that she shouldn’t have paid any attention to. She holds an A on a throne. And yet the ones that can really help her, they’ve really helped her. Now, she says in front of people. Oh, I just don’t want to talk about it. I just can’t do it. It’s just too much. I miss her. So. Well, Mr. So he should have treated her nice when she was here, you know, because Vivian was a wreck with her. I would go for take Vivian, say, what are you doing Sunday and just go for a drive. So we drive up to Solvang, Santa Barbara, and they would be sitting there looking out the passenger window, just watching everything go by because she didn’t want to talk about the show or anything. And she would just. And I was often look at the back of her head thinking, what’s going on in that little mind of hers? I’ve done all I can. I’ve been a true honest performer. And I wonder if it’s worth it. Because she was very on a thread, you know. But I never saw any of that. I love that woman that she was strength. As far as I was concerned here, she was weak. We are weak healthwise. You know.
Interviewer: All right. I want Bob. Tom, Dena. We’ll save that for last if you have. Laughs Okay. Your Kadina. Tom. You want to come around town? It from there and then. Yes. Can you hear him? Oh, OK. You need to answer to me.
Maury Thompson: Well, first of all, to answer the question, can I say that? Yes. Okay. She would laugh at you. Screen, you gotta be kidding. What’s the matter with you? Hurt you? What’s the matter with you? She. Nothing. A human quality never seems to enter into it. You know, she fired people that were angels to her. She had one woman call his appears. And that little girl was at her fingertips, older woman, older than Lucille. Lucille knew her in New York. And she just ran her to death and his. Yes. Angel. Yes, Angel. And she’d be on her way. Whatever had to be gotten. And. A lot of people are Abdala Fox, her wardrobe woman. We did a show where Lucy had to carry a belt around here with all the things hanging, the hammers and saws and everything. Well, the woman the Lucille came on up on a ladder with her back. The audience were you to know who she was. She dressed like a man and. I look down from my show and I look down at the cruiser because I thought maybe she decided not to wear it. But that’s the whole gimmick with all these things. Rackety, rackety, rackety. If you walk and I said, pull down the curtain, please hold down the curtain. Please, please hurry, hurry, hurry. And you could see Lucille, as I told her. Freeze. Don’t. Just stay where you are. Actors on the stage. Do we hear. So I went down. What’s going on? Well. I kind of hold the property, I said her bail. Oh, my God. You know, the phone. And he went back. Well, when he found out that Della Fox, the wardrobing may have forgotten, but the belt on. Lucille went down and just slapped her and cut her face and Taroom. And that way we could hear and the audience was still with his whole 15 minutes of all this going. Holding. Did you hear Yellow Fox saying, hey, you. I’ll report you to this. And you, Sue, would not go on with the show until that woman was in her car and off the lot. So the audience is sitting there wondering what has happened. She went back up on her ladder, pull the curtain down as if nothing had happened.
Interviewer: But to put that story in a context, obviously Lucille Ball must have been a perfectionist. She must have demanded perfection from herself and therefore felt that it was all right to demand perfection from other people.
Maury Thompson: Well, that’s true. But all actors do that. They’re all perfectionists. There’s a lot of bull. They’re just spoiled brats. They’re all the same way they expect. And the fools that we are. We wait on. We do anything they say because we know they have the talent. Not me being hurt. Just no. Is going to know that no one’s gonna do anything about that unless I tell them. Della Fox never saw her again. And we don’t know what era she’s losing from spreading somewhere. I think you might bump into Della. That was a darling woman, but she is stupid. But this. Wait. The main things to put that belt on could visit. And Lucille knew that.
Interviewer: But before we stop, I just want you to again put these in a context for yourself, because I think that there’s a risk that he will think that you didn’t care for her. And it’s so clear you didn’t care for her and you wouldn’t be going to these conventions and you wouldn’t be talking to us today if you didn’t have somewhere inside of you some place of affection for this difficult, unpredictable, spoiled woman. So try to to tell me about your affection in the context of all those other things that make it a complicated relationship.
Maury Thompson: Well, I won’t tell you something now that I’ve never told anyone else. And it’s unbelievable. On the last show that I worked with her, I screamed at her. We did it. We had a big set with a lot of dancers and everything. And I looked forward to it. We are always going to cover the dancers. I looked over and here’s Lucille standing with Gail Gordon and someone, some other actor over there with right up against the wall of the studio, out of the stage. And I said to camera three at the piano and see what we what we can get without moving the camera to see if. But she saw that. And she says, cut. What’s that camera doing on me? I said, what are you doing over there? You’ve never been there before. So what made Z make? With this audience is gonna see you, Lucille. And they’re gonna expect you to do something. And if you did and I didn’t have a camera, boy, would I hear about that. So then the next time we got ready to hear she’s standing there with the three again, she came out. See, she’ll hit you again with it. See what you how far she can take you. And with that, I just screamed and stamped my feet. I said, Now. Well, after the show, I went back to the public, always did. And she said, well, honey, we finally got a good show, didn’t we? So why are you crying? I said I was aware I was crying. I was nervous. I was just up to. I was leaving the next day on my vacation and I didn’t tell her, but I told my agent, I said, you tell her that if she wants me next year, I want more money because that’s all I can talk about. I’ll still do the job the same way. But I want to be paid to take that abuse from that woman. So what is it? I go on a vacation. I come back. Go to my office. My name. Play this off of my door. The secretary says, as I said, what’s my name? Play off the door faucet. Well, I’m sure talk to Tom. As you know, I’ve just got back my vacation. So he comes in. What happens? You’re fired. I have a lot. You’re fired. Your agent came in and asked for a raise for you. And she said, Deb. Whereas Murray is on vacation. Well, time to go blank himself. She picks up phone calls. Jack, down to you. You got to work the season. You have one now. By without even talking to me, she fired me. A person that had given my blood to her, my whole being and soul to her and been with her in her bedroom. She gets up in the van, goes to the bathroom and I’m still there. And, you know, it was intimate relationship. She had freedom. She was comfortable around me. I hope in my shop one day the Rolls Royce comes out in front of my shop and she spends about 20 minutes out there trying to figure out how to put the coins in the thing. So and so the cars would screech and come to us. The traffic would see her. You know, she came in. I thought, what are we going to do, you know? Oh, I like your shop. Can I use your John? Well, she’s only a matter of blocks from my house. She’s gone before she came. And those johns and those shops are not a thing of beauty, you know. So I had been to Europe and I brought her back some little crystal balls that said Elby on them. I thought, oh, my God, I got it. Regardless, I’ll give those to her. I am so anyway, she said megaphone. So she calls the studio town. She’s on her way in. So some do. There is no reason to come in there to see me. And I didn’t say a word about being fired or anything. I like your shop and everything, so. So she came in three or four times. Every time she’d go by. So I got things down that she liked. She walked right past them. Never bought one thing just to torment me. You know, you couldn’t believe that she would fire me. No one would believe it. So this secretary. I mean, the script girl next season, the first show Lucille came and said, what would be nice to have a director that doesn’t scream. Small, real, small, and not to have the guts to say wait. The more he gets back, I’ll talk to him and we’ll solve it. Work it out. We’ll work something. She cannot face that fact. You know, I knew she wanted to come and see me, but we never discussed it. Broke my heart. Ruined my career. No one’s gonna take a chance on me. You know? Lucille Ball Varity. I’ve never been fired from a job in my life. Never. Never. I always went to something better, better, better. And I did a hell of a good job on that show. All my life was on that show.
Interviewer: How did you feel the day she died?
Maury Thompson: I cried. I was in the car and you stopped the car just bald, you know, because I wanted to be with her more than I was. You know, I just. I was volunteering in a hospital, and when I walked in, I was in the. Pharmacy and this will nurse nurses. Oh, Lucy Vimy Die. Didn’t she? I said, how dare he say that? I said, she a relative of mine. And I just turned around and walked off left. Edwin Ray, the slapdown. Carol. I I don’t say those things, and I, I don’t want that done because it’s not. It does, but it doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t do anybody any good. I don’t. But. And when you think the kids lived that way, you know, you just. Pretty hard stuff to take.
Interviewer: All right. If she was sitting in front of the Pam right now, what would you say?
Maury Thompson: I would say, well, you’re listening to what I told Pam. Usually she would say he’s right if I never say anything like that in front of her. But if I said something and describing her, whatever she is, if he’s right, he knows I’ve got to let her in right there right now, seeing how much she appreciated all that, only I knew that she needed. So she’s keeping the letters solid I have now.
Interviewer: But you think. There’s some. Some some of that’s, you know, some disturbing stories, some. Can you think. Tell me that?
Maury Thompson: I really think that her mother is the. The core of these things that happened to her. Khelil is her cousin, Lucille’s cousin, and Lucille’s mother raised Krio with Lucille, and Lucille used to get the dates. You know, Cleo got this date this particular night, and Cleo and Lucille wanted to go. And that mother locked Cleo in a closet upstairs. So she and told the guy that she was ill and couldn’t come. But Lucille could go and Lucille went with. Ménage. Major, any any mother doing a thing like their. Is that Cleo, tell me. Herself says, I wasn’t so easy, kid. I loved Cleo, too, darling. Maybe she still is.
Interviewer: What would you say Lucille learned from her mother? I mean, what’s the what’s the message she learned from that story that her mother would do that in order to favor her daughter and so that her daughter could have the advantage?
Maury Thompson: I don’t know. Just her mother could do no wrong with her.
Interviewer: But what lessons did she teacher as a child?
Maury Thompson: That teacher, Lucille, grew, that’s just like nothing. She had no control. Did you as a terrible woman? Everyone knows she used to bring bring in her bridge club for around an hour before the show. You know, so and that’s where my desk is. And this one day. I was just getting it now. Daviss, what’s wrong with your ass hankering for wood? She was full of those things that I loved.
Interviewer: But do you think she taught her daughter ambition? Did you teach her to be ruthless?
Maury Thompson: I think she’s automatically copied. Her mother just didn’t didn’t literally come out and say be ruthless. But she saw us all she knew. So she News’s tough lady that she lived with. And I’ve never heard anyone deny that that about Didi’s. She was character. She had to go out anyway. Character.
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